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 Jon Jones refuses to give DC a shot at the title.

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PostSubject: Jon Jones refuses to give DC a shot at the title.    Tue Mar 04, 2014 1:43 pm


March 4, 2014

So it seems as though Jones doesn't like the UFC's title shots.

Daniel Cormier asked Jones this via FOX Sports:

"Hey Jon, this is Daniel Cormier -€“ bro, brother, would you be willing to give me a title shot?" Cormier asks.  "I'm asking nicely.  I'm not being aggressive.  I'm not trying to be confrontational, Jon, I'm just asking.  Would you be willing to give me a chance to fight? Please, brother, please. Make the decision."

Jon Jones responded with this:

"First and foremost, since you're speaking more respectfully, I'll say congratulations on your victory and your weight loss. But as far as giving you a title shot, I have no interest in fighting you right now, only because of the fact that you really haven't fought anyone that I consider a top level fighter. I'm kind of sick of seeing UFC light heavyweights fight against kind of like 'cans' until they get a title shot. I really want to see a top contender fight a top contender and I think you need to fight someone a little bit more well-known than Patrick Cummins. Fight against Rashad [Evans], fight against somebody legit, man. Then I think it would be a little more appropriate to give you that title shot."

Now Daniel Cormier used to fight at Heavyweight as most of you know, and has a perfect record in the UFC. In fact he has a perfect record as a pro. Fighting the likes of Frank Mir and Roy Nelson in the UFC. As well as fighters like Barnett and "Bigfoot" Silva in Strikeforce.

How Jones can say he hasn't fought a top fighter is beyond me. Especially knowing Cormier was a small heavyweight. Silva has fought for the title. Barnett has fought for titles as well, even winning one in the UFC before it was stripped because of a failed test. Mir isn't the man he was, but he is still no slouch. Cormier was scheduled to fight Rashad Evans, but Evans had to withdraw due to injury.

Yes, DC hasn't fought anyone in lightheavyweight that is a named opponent, but I don't think he needs to when moving down from a weightclass like heavyweight. It's not like he is cutting weight to beat smaller fighters.

For me, I see this as another move by the "champion" to avoid tough fights. Many believe he lost to Alexander Gustafsson. Yet instead of granting an immediate rematch to quelm any doubts, he chose to fight a guy that defines Jones' description. No offense to Glover Teixeira, but his record isn't exactly lined with top fighters. Yet Jones agreed to this fight.

Jones even thinks the UFC gave Gus an easy fight to get to a rematch. Manuwa is unbeaten so far, and is only filling in for an injured Antonio Rogerio Nogueira.

Jones is a prima donna avoiding the hard fights, and using excuses to keep from fighting guys who might actually dethrone him. Which in many eyes has already been done. There is no wonder why he is one of the most disliked "champs" in recent history.

A champ fights anyone they put in front of him, knowing he/she is confident enough to keep their belt.

I do agree that the UFC's title matchmaking makes little sense. However, the champ should have to face whoever the UFC puts him up against. I know there are more deserving opponents, but maybe the UFC wants to keep Jones the lightheavyweight "champ".

I also do believe Jon Jones is actually afraid to fight Cormier. Why else would he turn down the fight? There is none, especially since Jones feels fine facing the likes of Chael Sonnen who has no reason whatsoever to be facing Jones for the belt. At least Cormier has a winning record.

Oh well, one day his reign will end in the eyes of the judges as well. However, that might not be any day soon if he is allowed to choose his opponents. Here is to hoping the UFC actually starts putting together actual championship matches, and stops allowing their "champs" to pick and choose who they face.


Last edited by Rich Davie on Fri Oct 17, 2014 10:25 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Moved to UFC Forum)
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PostSubject: Re: Jon Jones refuses to give DC a shot at the title.    Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:08 pm

Sorry, if I offend any Jones fans, but these are my opinions. I do love watching him fight, but he gets under my skin sometimes.
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PostSubject: Re: Jon Jones refuses to give DC a shot at the title.    Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:51 pm

I think we all know why Jones doesn't want to fight Cormier... Cormier has got some heavy hands.

After seeing what Alexander Gustafsson did to Jones, Daniel Cormier would quite possibly KTFO of Jonny "Bones" Jones and bring his championship reign to an end.

I used to be a massive fan of both Jones the fighter, and Jones the person... I still enjoy Jones the fighter, but not so much the latter.

I guess the old adage that "Fame changes a person" is true... because the humble and respectful young man that started in the UFC is long gone.

I'm fairly certain that Jones won't be doing much talk about moving up to Heavyweight any longer, especially since he's obviously not willing to fight a small heavyweight that has moved down to 205.

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PostSubject: Re: Jon Jones refuses to give DC a shot at the title.    Tue Mar 04, 2014 3:46 pm

I'm certainly not a Jones fan by any stretch, and I find a lot of what you said to be true.  Jones doesn't strike me as a "fighter," he strikes me as an "Athlete, who fights for a living."

I've long been critical of his tendency to "cherry pick" his opponents, and it just seems like he's up to more of the same. I am one of those who vehemently maintains that the LHW strap should be around the waist of Alexander Gustafsson. He won that fight.

He can use any excuse he'd like, but a real fighter wants to fight the best guys in his division, to prove who's the baddest MoFo in that division. Right now, since he's denied Gus an immediate rematch, DC is the most real threat to his title. 

But, instead of wanting to prove he's the best, he's busy whining and criticizing the caliber of competition his contenders are facing. That doesn't earn my respect in any way.

I've heard him talking about someday going to HW and looking for a "superfight" against Velasquez. all I can say to that is "Oh, God, PLEASE!!" Cain will give him the thrashing of a lifetime. Bones has NOTHING for Cain , and if he thinks so, the only one he's fooling is himself.
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PostSubject: Re: Jon Jones refuses to give DC a shot at the title.    Tue Mar 04, 2014 4:23 pm

No doubt... Cain Velasquez would absolutely destroy Jon Jones.

Maybe he's thinking about that as a superfight for a big payday... but that match-up would most likely put an end to his career as an MMA fighter.

Velasquez would give Jones a severe case of dain bramage !

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PostSubject: Re: Jon Jones refuses to give DC a shot at the title.    Tue Mar 04, 2014 4:25 pm

IRONHORSE wrote:
I've heard him talking about someday going to HW and looking for a "superfight" against Velasquez. all I can say to that is "Oh, God, PLEASE!!" Cain will give him the thrashing of a lifetime. Bones has NOTHING for Cain , and if he thinks so, the only one he's fooling is himself.
Yeah, that cracked me up too. Cain would maul him.
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PostSubject: Re: Jon Jones refuses to give DC a shot at the title.    Wed Mar 05, 2014 2:00 am

at last, a real debate...  thanks man...

    FT, appreciate you sharing your opinions, that's why we all come here, and I'm respectful of your thoughtful presentation of your ideas.  

    Totally disagree with almost every word you said...    

    Zuffa/UFC never officially offered Jon Jones a rematch with Alex Gustafsson.  They offered him Glover Texeira, a man who has over twenty consecutive wins as an MMA pro, the last five of which occurred in the UFC light heavyweight division.  They may have consulted with the champion, but Jones never officially denied Alex Gustafsson an immediate rematch, as that offer was never made.

     Unless and until Joe Silva and the official arm of Zuffa/UFC offer Jones a Cormier fight, he's expressing his opinion, not turning down a title defense.  Anderson Silva repeatedly expressed his opinion, denying that Chael Sonnen "deserved" a shot at the 185 pound strap; but when promotional push came to business shove, Silva got in the ring and took care of business.  

     After beating five current or former world champions in eighteen months, I find the assertion that Jon Jones is looking to avoid tough fights hardly credible.  He has arguably fought the toughest schedule in the shortest amount of time ever undertaken by any UFC champion, and because one fighter was actually able to give him a challenging fight, he's ducking tough competition?  

     Certainly celebrate your right to challenge a controversial decision.  I think Phil Davis over Lyoto Machida was a serious miscarriage of adjudication, but the record reads "W" for Davis, as it does for Jones in regard to Gustafsson.  I saw that fight clearly for the champion, and if Jones surpasses Texeira in their upcoming match, look forward to the second Jones/Gustafsson contest with real anticipation.  Two opponents so well matched and so close in skills, motivation, and execution is about as good as it gets in this sport.   If Gustafsson is fortunate enough to take care of Jimi Manuwa, the rematch can't happen fast enough.   I feel pretty strongly that Jon Jones will honor Alex Gustafsson with his best effort in that second chapter, and possibly the best title defense of his career.   

    Never been a Cormier fan, but have warmed up to him in his LHW quest, as he made weight, and did a great job against Patrick Cummins.  I respect his heavyweight effort, especially his wins against Josh Barnett and Roy Nelson, but happen to agree with Jones' opinion that to be more relevant at 205, had he beaten Rashad Evans, it would have been another kind of welcome to the division.  

    As it is, when the title picture plays out, I firmly believe that if Joe Silva says Cormier is next in line, Jones will do what needs to be done.  He'll use his reach advantage, striking acumen, sub and takedown defense, long range kicking game, and peerless conditioning to give Daniel Cormier a real welcome to the 205 lb. division.  I think Cormier should fight again before that happens, but I'm just a fan, not a matchmaker or MMA pundit...
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PostSubject: Re: Jon Jones refuses to give DC a shot at the title.    Wed Mar 05, 2014 2:33 am

Jones is scared man. He knows his weaknesses have been exposed. He is a skilled fighter, but Gus proved his reach and height are his best advantage. Phil Davis is a better choice for a championship match than Texeira because of the fighters he has faced. Whether or not he won against Machida, like you said, it is still a win.

From ESPN:

UFC president Dana White confirmed Jones' next opponent to ESPN.com on Wednesday. According to White, Jones personally requested to fight Teixeira next. The bout will take place at the Prudential Center in Newark at UFC 169.

"That's what the champ wants," White said. "We'll probably have that fight on the Super Bowl card in New Jersey."

So yes, they did float the idea of an instant rematch to him, but he chose to fight Glover. Jones doesn't want to fight Cormier. A man who has experience fighting, and beating, bigger men.
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PostSubject: Re: Jon Jones refuses to give DC a shot at the title.    Wed Mar 05, 2014 7:43 pm

I believe when the time comes, which may not be until 2015, after a Texeira fight, and after the Gustafsson rematch, that Jon Jones, if he is victorious against these two opponents, will do what he does best against Daniel Cormier.  He'll exploit his reach advantage to attack the shorter, stockier wrestler; he'll tag Cormier with kicks before Cormier can even touch him, and he'll use his array of striking techniques to overwhelm Cormier over five rounds to outpoint, outlast, and ultimately out-class him.  Jones might not have anvil-smashing hammer power, but he has speed, finesse, deadly elbows, long leg kicks, the best takedown defense numbers in the history of the sport, and excellent vision with which to defend against a shorter, slower, very powerful wrestler/puncher who has never dealt with the combination of talents Jones exhibits.  

     Jones/Cormier should be a great fight, and it should happen, but the schedule has to play out.  

    I do remember the statement alluded to as to Jones' preference after the Gustafsson fight, but again, fighters don't choose their opponents for the most part.  The powers that be chose to give the champ his preference, a business decision on their part, and likely a good one, both for Jones and Gustafsson.  The promotion gets to build the second fight to even greater levels, and both of the combatants now get more time to hone their games for one another.  Should they succeed in besting their interim opponents, they'll meet again.  They're both young, strong, and evolving in their respective games and in their maturity as fighters.  I think Jones has continued to improve, as is obviously the case with Gustafsson, so the second fight should be even better. 

    Hopefully, Cormier will also acclimate even better to fighting at 205, and with another fight or two, should be even more formidable when his shot at the title comes around...
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PostSubject: Re: Jon Jones refuses to give DC a shot at the title.    Wed Mar 05, 2014 7:47 pm

For what it's worth, I think Jon Jones kills Phil Davis, if and when that match happens, but that's a matchmaker's job....
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PostSubject: Re: Jon Jones refuses to give DC a shot at the title.    Wed Mar 05, 2014 10:17 pm

It is possible Jones destroys Davis, but then again, anything can happen. I think the fear of Jones has worn off. He has been exposed. If you can touch him up, there is a chance to beat him. He doesn't handle punches too well. I think Cormier with his experience with fighting bigger opponents has an edge that a lot of other fighters don't. Throw in his Olympic caliber wrestling, and we could have an upset.

Jones' reach advantage is his main asset. A fighter who can get inside that can do well against him. Machida showed this. At least until he was choked out. The Gustaffson fight showed how human Jones is. He is going to have trouble pretty much from here on out. The lightheavyweight division hasn't had a very long reigning champ for a reason. Don't count out Teixeira, he might shock the world. Doubt it, but it could happen.
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PostSubject: Re: Jon Jones refuses to give DC a shot at the title.    Thu Mar 06, 2014 4:33 am

Totally agree with the assessment of Texeira.  Lots of people point to the lack of quality opponents, but you don't get 20+ consecutive wins against professional fighters if you suck.  Glover also comes from deep MMA roots, having worked with Chuck Liddell, and earned a BJJ black belt all on his own.  I like his toughness, he's an aggressive stylist, and like his mentor, Texeira rarely takes a step backward.  

     Also agree that Machida was the first to get inside on Jones and show it was possible.  He had a good first round, before ending up rag-dolled on the mat.  

     Gustafsson was a perfect physical match for Jones, had the confidence and ability to stand in against the champ, and without a doubt illustrated Jones' humanity.  No one ever hit Jones as hard or as often as Alex did, but it's not like Gustafsson escaped unscathed.  He took some staples to the head after that fight, and absorbed his share of heavy blows.  I thought both guys proved pretty tough, and look forward to chapter two between these two aces.  

     Thing is, I don't see Jones resting on his laurels and on his previous accomplishments.  I see him working hard to analyze where he was vulnerable, and experimenting with various ways to close the holes through which he was successfully attacked.  Honestly, I think Gustafsson is doing the exact same thing, as these are young talented guys, neither of whom have reached their ultimate potential in my opinion.  I just think there's a reason Jones has had the success he has, with his combination of natural athleticism, physical gifts, and what I think might be his greatest advantage, I think he's really smart and has great vision in the cage.  We'll see a better Jones against Texeira, and an even better champion if he gets by Glover and faces Gustafsson again.

     Once more, just my opinion, but I think Jon Jones really became a fighter after the beating he took from Alex Gustafsson, and by deciding to go forward and defend his belt, I think he'll be more dangerous than ever, rather than less so.  We all know anything can happen in an MMA fight, and I'm a fan of Glover, Alex and Jones, but I'm looking for an even better champion to emerge from his most recent challenge.
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PostSubject: Re: Jon Jones refuses to give DC a shot at the title.    Thu Mar 06, 2014 8:19 pm

Sorry, but Jones is pretty much mediocre if you ask me without his height/reach advantage. He is skilled, but had he been facing guys his size, he would have already lost the belt and possibly never got it. People will always detract from his height/reach and bring up a guy like Struve. Struve fights at heavyweight. A totally different class that ranges in weight allotment from 220-265, and that is just the weigh-ins.

Gus proved that Jones is just above average. Gus in my opinion is the same way. He is a good fighter, but without his height/reach, he wouldn't be as successful. Jones fights guy with probably an average of a 10" reach disadvantage. That is almost a foot. His height gives him leverage for wrestling. Do you actually think he would have gotten a standing guillotine on Machida without his height? You would have to be the biggest fanboy to believe so. Standing guillotines are rare, especially the way he did it.

I'm not saying Jones isn't talented. I'm saying he has an enormous advantage over almost everyone he has ever faced. The only one that was even close, was close to his height/reach. Many believe Gus won at that. Jones, without his height/reach, is just an above average fighter. Not a great one.
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PostSubject: Re: Jon Jones refuses to give DC a shot at the title.    Mon Mar 10, 2014 3:50 am

Thing is, he IS that tall, and DOES have that reach.  I guess you can theorize as to what his talents and abilities might be like if he didn't have these great natural advantages, but he does have them.  

     Don't really understand at all how you think that detracting from Jones' physical gifts somehow minimizes his greatness.  No one in the history of the sport has achieved what he has, in terms of destroying present or former world champions.  While there are a lot of people who can't stand Jon Jones as a person and want to root against him, finding him arrogant, self involved, whatever, he's more than proven his mettle as a fighter, especially in the hard fight he had with Gustafsson, where he took a beating but gave even better than he took.  If he's just above average, who is a great one?  And if he's out there, where is he, and why haven't we seen him take down the champion?
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PostSubject: Re: Jon Jones refuses to give DC a shot at the title.    Mon Mar 10, 2014 4:08 am

Mu_Shin wrote:
Thing is, he IS that tall, and DOES have that reach.  I guess you can theorize as to what his talents and abilities might be like if he didn't have these great natural advantages, but he does have them.  

     Don't really understand at all how you think that detracting from Jones' physical gifts somehow minimizes his greatness.  No one in the history of the sport has achieved what he has, in terms of destroying present or former world champions.  While there are a lot of people who can't stand Jon Jones as a person and want to root against him, finding him arrogant, self involved, whatever, he's more than proven his mettle as a fighter, especially in the hard fight he had with Gustafsson, where he took a beating but gave even better than he took.  If he's just above average, who is a great one?  And if he's out there, where is he, and why haven't we seen him take down the champion?
Hard fight against Gus..........who is around his height and reach........hmmmmm. What does that say? You did watch that fight right? Gus gave the beating.



Who is the one still in a hospital bed in this pic?
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PostSubject: Re: Jon Jones refuses to give DC a shot at the title.    Mon Mar 10, 2014 4:11 am

A lot believe Gus won. Jones had the champ's advantage.
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PostSubject: Re: Jon Jones refuses to give DC a shot at the title.    Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:40 am

[size=36]RESULTS & STATS[/size]Contact Us to Get 
Your Hosted DB
Events & FightsFightersJudgesReferees

Events > UFC 165: Jones vs. Gustafsson > Jones vs. Gustafsson
UFC 165: Jones vs. Gustafsson


[size][color][font]
  UFC LIGHT HEAVYWEIGHT TITLE MATCH
[/font][/color][/size]
[size=34]W[/size]
[size][color][font]
Jon Jones
"BONES"

[/font][/color][/size]
[size=34]L[/size]
[size][color][font]
Alexander Gustafsson
"THE MAULER"


[/font][/color][/size]
METHODROUNDTIMETIME FORMATREFEREE
Unan. Dec.     55:005 Rnd (5-5-5-5-5)[url=http://hosteddb.fightmetric.com/referees/details/John McCarthy]John McCarthy[/url]
DETAILS
Richard Bertrand: 48 - 47
Doug Crosby: 48 - 47
Chris Lee: 49 - 46

[th]Fighter[/th][th]KD[/th][th]Sig. Str.[/th][th]Sig. Str. %[/th][th]Total Str.[/th][th]TD[/th][th]TD %[/th][th]Sub. Att.[/th][th]Pass[/th][th]Rev.[/th]
FIGHTS TOTALS
Jones0134 of 21762%137 of 2201 of 119%000
Gustafsson0110 of 28838%114 of 2941 of 813%000
ROUND 1
Jones028 of 3972%28 of 390 of 30%000
Gustafsson019 of 4840%19 of 481 of 1100%000
ROUND 2
Jones026 of 4262%26 of 420 of 30%000
Gustafsson015 of 5129%15 of 510 of 10%000
ROUND 3
Jones029 of 4269%30 of 430 of 00%000
Gustafsson026 of 6441%26 of 640 of 10%000
ROUND 4
Jones027 of 4955%28 of 500 of 30%000
Gustafsson026 of 6043%26 of 600 of 10%000
ROUND 5
Jones024 of 4553%25 of 461 of 250%000
Gustafsson024 of 6537%28 of 710 of 40%000
[size][color][font]
 [/font][/color][/size]
Will never argue that the stats tell the whole story, but they tell a significant part of what happened.  I saw Jones hit Gustafsson harder and more often, and the stats tend to agree with what I, and the judges, saw...
 
 
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PostSubject: Re: Jon Jones refuses to give DC a shot at the title.    Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:55 am

I'm usually the one who pulls the fight stats out, and agrees with what they indicate... but not in this fight ! LOL

I also thought that Gustafsson won that fight, and in this instance I don't agree with what the stats indicate here.

Looking at the overall stats in this one, the numbers make it look like Jones somewhat dominated Gustafsson... which clearly was not the case in my opinion.

I guess it was the aggression that had me call it a win for Gustafsson, because the number of strikes landed by both fighters was very close and not voluminous... and in my opinion, I thought Gustafsson had the more damaging and impactful strikes.

There's still so much controversy on what and how the FightMetric numbers are determined and compiled, especially when they're not done in real-time as the CompuStrike numbers are, and we don't get to see them without a bit of a delay.

I'm not saying there's any sort of impropriety here... just that there seems to be very little consistency in how the FightMetric numbers are compiled.

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PostSubject: Re: Jon Jones refuses to give DC a shot at the title.    Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:04 am

Damage usually is a good indicator of damage. Jones was the one barely able to get out of the octagon. A lot of those strikes are Jones little leg strikes. They didn't seem to affect Gus much at all, if at all.
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PostSubject: Re: Jon Jones refuses to give DC a shot at the title.    Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:58 am

As noted, the stats don't always tell the tale, but my subjective judgement in this case aligned with the judges...  We'll have to agree to disagree, and look forward to chapter 2. 

    Gust clearly disposed of Manuwa with no difficulty.  Jones will likely have a more challenging night against Texeira, but expect him to overcome.  Jones/Gustafsson II should happen next Fall, and I'm sure we'll all be watching to see if the second fight can equal or better the first.  I think Jones takes it, but that's why they fight the fights...
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PostSubject: Re: Jon Jones refuses to give DC a shot at the title.    Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:07 am

There's no problem with agreeing to disagree... and yeah, Gustafsson vs. Jones II will be next if Glover doesn't KO him early on in the fight.

I hope Jones wins that bout so we can see the Gustafsson vs. Jones rematch... and I think Gustafsson wins again in the rematch. Wink

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PostSubject: Re: Jon Jones refuses to give DC a shot at the title.    Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:14 pm

I am so looking forward to Gus/ Jones II. And, count me as another who think the LHW strap is around the wrong waist right now.

Then again, I think the WW strap *finally* found it's way to its rightful owner. If GSP won that fight, I'll eat my underwear.
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PostSubject: Re: Jon Jones refuses to give DC a shot at the title.    Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:46 pm

LOL

I'm with you on that man.

Hendricks finally got what he deserved in an even tougher match-up against Lawler... but like you said, the WW belt finally found it's rightful owner.

...let's hope Jones doesn't get KTFO by Glover so the LHW belt finds IT'S rightful owner !

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PostSubject: Re: Jon Jones refuses to give DC a shot at the title.    Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:52 pm

Much as I'd love to see it, I don't think Texiera is the man to defeat Bones. Don't get me wrong - I'd be hootin', hollerin', and dancing an impromptu jig if he did!

But, I think Gustafsson is going to finish what he started, when Bones grows enough of a pair to fight him again. And, there will be great celebration wherever I am, when he does.
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PostSubject: Re: Jon Jones refuses to give DC a shot at the title.    Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:59 pm

I think we're looking at the all too familiar situation of a fighter being exposed... and Gustafsson exposed Jon Jones.

Putting the pressure on Jones with punches in bunches, and not allowing him to enjoy the comfortable height and reach advantage is the key to defeating him.

If Glover can get inside early on and land square on Jones' chin, I think Jones goes to sleep... this is why all of the chatter from Jones wanting to fight Cain is simply utter nonsense and laughable.

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